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	<title>Comments on: Central Asian Myth and 2012</title>
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	<link>http://timberwolfhq.com/central-asian-myth-and-2012/</link>
	<description>Spiritual Warrior &#38; Seeker of the Way</description>
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		<title>By: D. Croner</title>
		<link>http://timberwolfhq.com/central-asian-myth-and-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-1697</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Croner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timberwolfhq.com/?p=2306#comment-1697</guid>
		<description>Last two lines of second comment should be:

“Whatever else may be said about Agartha, it seems to have been a source of delusion, of not certifiable insanity, to almost everyone who has written about it.”

Obviously I have been dwelling on Agharta too long . . . My mind has been affected . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last two lines of second comment should be:</p>
<p>“Whatever else may be said about Agartha, it seems to have been a source of delusion, of not certifiable insanity, to almost everyone who has written about it.”</p>
<p>Obviously I have been dwelling on Agharta too long . . . My mind has been affected . . .</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: D. Croner</title>
		<link>http://timberwolfhq.com/central-asian-myth-and-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-1695</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Croner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timberwolfhq.com/?p=2306#comment-1695</guid>
		<description>One last, and I hope amusing, comment on Agharta. This comes from Joscelyn Godwin’s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0932813356?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=trahq-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=0932813356&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Arktos: The Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism, and Nazi Survival&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, a chapter of which provides what may be the best summary of the Agharta mythololgem:

“Whatever else may be said about Agartha, it seems to have been a source delusion, if not certifiable insanity, to almost everyone who has written about it.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One last, and I hope amusing, comment on Agharta. This comes from Joscelyn Godwin’s <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0932813356?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=trahq-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=390957&#038;creativeASIN=0932813356" rel="nofollow"><i>Arktos: The Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism, and Nazi Survival</i></a>, a chapter of which provides what may be the best summary of the Agharta mythololgem:</p>
<p>“Whatever else may be said about Agartha, it seems to have been a source delusion, if not certifiable insanity, to almost everyone who has written about it.”</p>
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		<title>By: D. Croner</title>
		<link>http://timberwolfhq.com/central-asian-myth-and-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-1692</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Croner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 08:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timberwolfhq.com/?p=2306#comment-1692</guid>
		<description>At the risk of belaboring a point, I repeat that Ossendowski never wrote anything about Shambhala and never even mentioned the word. A text reference is available in the Gutenberg Project copy of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2067&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Beasts, Men and Gods&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;. I am fully aware that dozens of authors conflate Agharti and Shambhala, includIng Victoria LePage. 

In the first excerpt of hers she simply inserted Shambhala for Agharti. On page 300 of &lt;i&gt;Beasts, Men and Gods&lt;/i&gt;, Ossendowski says nothing about Shambhala. He says only: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;“On my journey into Central Asia I came to know for the first time about the Mystery of Mysteries, which I can call by no other name. At the outset I did not pay much attention to it and did not attach to it such importance as I afterwards realized belonged to it, when I had analyzed and connoted many sporadic, hazy and often controversial bits of evidence.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;
 
From this, apparently, LePage comes up with the quote about Ossendowski hearing about Shambhala from all sides . . .

The second quotation from LePage is even more bizarre. First, the quote from LePage appears to have left out some quotation marks, making it sound like it was Ossendowski and not LePage speaking some of the words. Then LePage seems to have combined at least two different quotes from Ossendowski to come up with her own. This is from page 300 of Ossendowski:

&lt;blockquote&gt;”Living beings in fear are involuntarily thrown into prayer and waiting for their fate.So it was just now. Thus it has always been whenever the King of the World  in his subterranean palace prays and searches out the destiny of all peoples on the earth.’ In this wise the old Mongol, a simple, coarse shepherd and hunter, spoke to me.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The second part of LePage’s quote seems to come from this passage on page 304 of Ossendowski:

&lt;blockquote&gt;“The blissful Sakkia Mouni found on one mountain top tablets of stone carrying words which he only understood in his old age and afterwards penetrated into the Kingdom of Agharti, from which he brought back crumbs of the sacred learning preserved in his memory. There in palaces of wonderful crystal live the invisible rulers of all pious people, the King of the World or Brahytma, who can speak with God as I speak with you, and his two assistants, Mahytma, knowing the purposes of future events, and Mahynga, ruling the causes of these events.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As can be seen, Ossendowski says nothing about Shambhala. LePage inserted the word Shambhala, making it sound like it was Ossendowski speaking. 

One might wonder how this confusion began. I would point to the writings of Nicholas Roerich, who may have been the first to conflate Agharti and Shambhala. Ashe, in his &lt;i&gt;Ancient Wisdom&lt;/i&gt; is clearly following Roerich on this. As for the Agharti Mythologem, Ossendowski lifted it from the 1886 book &lt;i&gt;Mission de l’Inde en Europe&lt;/i&gt; (Mission of India in Europe) by French occultist Joseph-Alexandre Saint-Yves d’Alveidre. This book was recently reprinted as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594772681?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=trahq-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=1594772681&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Kingdom of Agarttha: A Journey into the Hollow Earth&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a &gt;. Compare this book with Part Five of &lt;i&gt;Beasts, Men and Gods&lt;/i&gt;, in which Ossendowski discusses Agharti and draw your own conclusions. I myself would say it comes dangerously close to outright plagiarism. 

In any case, the legend of Agharti does not seem to exist in Mongolia. I myself have traveled over 30,000 miles through Mongolia by jeep, horse, and Camel (see www. doncroner.com, the RoerichExpedition for more details) and questioned hundreds of people, including many knowledgeable lamas, about this. I have never found anyone in Mongolia who has ever heard of the Agharti mythologem.

Finally,  I would have to question the statement (by whom it is not clear) that: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;“His [Ossendowski’s] “King of the World” is identical to the ruler of the Kalachakra kingdom.” &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Please read Ossendowski&#039;s description of the King of World in his own book and not what other people wrote about Ossendowski’s book, then compare it to the Kalachakra Tantra and decide for yourself. You can see a description of Shambhala itself a www. shambhala.mn, The Kingdom of Shambhala.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the risk of belaboring a point, I repeat that Ossendowski never wrote anything about Shambhala and never even mentioned the word. A text reference is available in the Gutenberg Project copy of <a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2067" rel="nofollow"><i>Beasts, Men and Gods</i></a>. I am fully aware that dozens of authors conflate Agharti and Shambhala, includIng Victoria LePage. </p>
<p>In the first excerpt of hers she simply inserted Shambhala for Agharti. On page 300 of <i>Beasts, Men and Gods</i>, Ossendowski says nothing about Shambhala. He says only: </p>
<blockquote><p>“On my journey into Central Asia I came to know for the first time about the Mystery of Mysteries, which I can call by no other name. At the outset I did not pay much attention to it and did not attach to it such importance as I afterwards realized belonged to it, when I had analyzed and connoted many sporadic, hazy and often controversial bits of evidence.”</p></blockquote>
<p>From this, apparently, LePage comes up with the quote about Ossendowski hearing about Shambhala from all sides . . .</p>
<p>The second quotation from LePage is even more bizarre. First, the quote from LePage appears to have left out some quotation marks, making it sound like it was Ossendowski and not LePage speaking some of the words. Then LePage seems to have combined at least two different quotes from Ossendowski to come up with her own. This is from page 300 of Ossendowski:</p>
<blockquote><p>”Living beings in fear are involuntarily thrown into prayer and waiting for their fate.So it was just now. Thus it has always been whenever the King of the World  in his subterranean palace prays and searches out the destiny of all peoples on the earth.’ In this wise the old Mongol, a simple, coarse shepherd and hunter, spoke to me.”</p></blockquote>
<p>The second part of LePage’s quote seems to come from this passage on page 304 of Ossendowski:</p>
<blockquote><p>“The blissful Sakkia Mouni found on one mountain top tablets of stone carrying words which he only understood in his old age and afterwards penetrated into the Kingdom of Agharti, from which he brought back crumbs of the sacred learning preserved in his memory. There in palaces of wonderful crystal live the invisible rulers of all pious people, the King of the World or Brahytma, who can speak with God as I speak with you, and his two assistants, Mahytma, knowing the purposes of future events, and Mahynga, ruling the causes of these events.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>As can be seen, Ossendowski says nothing about Shambhala. LePage inserted the word Shambhala, making it sound like it was Ossendowski speaking. </p>
<p>One might wonder how this confusion began. I would point to the writings of Nicholas Roerich, who may have been the first to conflate Agharti and Shambhala. Ashe, in his <i>Ancient Wisdom</i> is clearly following Roerich on this. As for the Agharti Mythologem, Ossendowski lifted it from the 1886 book <i>Mission de l’Inde en Europe</i> (Mission of India in Europe) by French occultist Joseph-Alexandre Saint-Yves d’Alveidre. This book was recently reprinted as <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594772681?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=trahq-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=390957&#038;creativeASIN=1594772681" rel="nofollow"><i>The Kingdom of Agarttha: A Journey into the Hollow Earth</i></a>. Compare this book with Part Five of <i>Beasts, Men and Gods</i>, in which Ossendowski discusses Agharti and draw your own conclusions. I myself would say it comes dangerously close to outright plagiarism. </p>
<p>In any case, the legend of Agharti does not seem to exist in Mongolia. I myself have traveled over 30,000 miles through Mongolia by jeep, horse, and Camel (see www. doncroner.com, the RoerichExpedition for more details) and questioned hundreds of people, including many knowledgeable lamas, about this. I have never found anyone in Mongolia who has ever heard of the Agharti mythologem.</p>
<p>Finally,  I would have to question the statement (by whom it is not clear) that: </p>
<blockquote><p>“His [Ossendowski’s] “King of the World” is identical to the ruler of the Kalachakra kingdom.” </p></blockquote>
<p>Please read Ossendowski&#8217;s description of the King of World in his own book and not what other people wrote about Ossendowski’s book, then compare it to the Kalachakra Tantra and decide for yourself. You can see a description of Shambhala itself a www. shambhala.mn, The Kingdom of Shambhala.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Timberwolf</title>
		<link>http://timberwolfhq.com/central-asian-myth-and-2012/comment-page-1/#comment-1688</link>
		<dc:creator>Timberwolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 08:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timberwolfhq.com/?p=2306#comment-1688</guid>
		<description>Don, thanks for the fascinating insights. I checked on the details and added an update.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, thanks for the fascinating insights. I checked on the details and added an update.</p>
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